happening now, a cnn special report, obama care under fire. the president delivers a fierce new defense of his health care program with a twist that's infuriating some republicans. his embattled health secretary faces congress an makes apologies for the obama care web site fiasco. stand by for her heated testimony. and the questions left unanswered. and a warning of the high

security risk on the obama care web site. cnn has obtained a disturbing memo written only days before the launch. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." i take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed asap. >> hold me accountable for the debacle. i'm responsible. >> they certainly are the fays of the obama care web site debacle. both were front and center today taking responsibility and promising solutions. we have team coverage this hour of obama care under fire. first let's go to our senior white house correspondent jim acosta with the very latest. jim? >> here at the white house officials believe the president took ownership of the messups with obama care today that they feel like he for the first time really addressed this issue of millions of cancellation letters going to americans around the country, informing them they may be losing their coverage. in other words this white house feels they have turned the

corner on obama care in getting the program back on track. >> it was part photo op, part flashback as the president stood in boston's historic faneuel hall where mitt romney signed into law the health care plan that became the prototype for obama care. >> there's no denying it. right now the web site is too slow. team people have gotten stuck. and i am not happy about it. and i take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed asap. >> mr. obama argued romney care wasn't perfect at first, either. >> enrollment was extremely slow. within a month, only about 100 people had signed up. >> but there are also big ditcheses. former romney aides like ex-spokesman ryan williams are disgusted with the comparisons. >> what do you make of that? >> pathetic. >> romney had the late senator ted kennedy by his side, a

bipartisan achievement the president wasn't able to match. >> president obama has not done a good job managing the process. he has not hired competent people to run this program. i think we're seeing the disastrous results of that right now. >> romney also rejected the comparison in a statement, saying "had president obama actually learned the lessons of massachusetts health care the installation of the program would not have been a frustrating embarrassment. but the president's trip to boston explained another purpose, why he sold obama care with the pitch if you like your plan you can keel it. those consumers receiving cancellation letters, the president said, can buy insurance under obama care, an option they may not have had before. >> no insurance company will ever be able to deny you coverage or drop you as a customer. those days are over. and that's the truth. >> i just finished talking with a senior white house official who said again that the president has complete confidence in health and human services secretary kathleen

sebelius that the white house is happy with her performance today at that hearing up on capitol hill wolf, one thing the senior white house official also said contrasting with some of the circus like atmosphere in that hearing today, quote the republicans did us a favor up there today. they feel like in contrast to what happened up no capitol hill, kathleen sebelius came out of that hearing pretty well, wolf. >> jim acosta at the white house. another new defense of the president and the obama care rollout today, this time from the former white house chief of staff now the mayor of chicago rahm emanuel. my colleague jake tapper sat down with the mayor and asked him about the problems with the web site and the mistakes that were made. >> do you think it was a mistake for the president to say if you like your health plan you can keep your health plan? >> i don't think it was a mistake at all. he was talking and everybody knew you guys covered it that what the indication was the employer-based plans. which 95% of people got their

health man plans that way. >> there are criticisms from him he is disengaged. >> that is further from the truth about the president. i used to see him every morning, three or four times during the day and every evening before he went out. when i see him every morning he had read all the material that was presented to him by everybody and he knew going into the meeting what the assumption of the other side of the argument was, why he wanted to exactly what questions he wanted about whether it was on economic policy or any particular foreign policy. so the idea he'd be disengaged, unless something happened, i've never seen in the two years of intensity when i was there, i just don't buy it. >> now to the embattled health secretary, kathleen sebelius and her highly anticipated testimony today about obama care and the web site and its failures. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash has more. >> reporter: kathleen sebelius

came with a clear sound-bite length mea culpa. >> i apologize. i'm accountable to you for fixing these problems. >> she repeatedly fell on her sword about the problem-plagued obama care web site. >> i told the president that we were ready to go. clearly i was wrong. >> reporter: republicans eagerly pointed out that the web site wasn't even working during this 3 1/2 hour hearing. >> it's been down the whole type you've been testifying. >> reporter: democrats were eager to point out the positive. >> women can no longer be charge more than a man for the same coverage. >> reporter: but some worried web site problems are masking all that and want to be sure it will be fixed by the new november 30th deadline. >> do you have full confidence in this new hard date? >> i know that the only way i can restore confidence that we get it right is to get it right. >> reporter: still sebelius flatly ruled out extending a march 31st deadline to enroll or delaying a fee americans must pay for not buying insurance. and a few times her con trition

was overshadowed by irritation. >> it's great that you're a team player and you're taking responsibility. it is the president's ultimate responsibility, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever. yes. he is the president. he is responsible for government. >> obama care confusion reaches beyond the web site. insurance companies are dropping people's plans, something the president promised wouldn't happen. sebelius struggled to explain why. many of those plans do not have beefed up coverage required under the new law. >> the policy that they had may not exist, but they have a lot of choices of new policies. >> reporter: republicans called it unfair. >> some people like to drive a ford, not ferrari. and some people like to drink out of red solo cup not out of a crystal stem. you're taking away their choice. >> reporter: republicans came armed with constituent horror stories ant questions why sebelius herself isn't on the

exchange. >> i am not eligible for the exchange. >> you have the choice to decide not to choose -- >> that is not true, sir. >> reporter: now, it is true she is right. she is prohibited from being on obama care exchange. but wolf it's not because she is a cabinet secretary or because she is on a federal health plan now. it is because she is 65 and a medicare recipient. and people who are getting those benefits cannot also enter obama care exchanges, wolf. >> interesting, dana, thank you very much. still ahead, is the obama care web site vulnerable to hackers? cnn has now obtained an internal memo with a disturbing warning. and i'll ask republican congresswoman michele bachmann to respond to president obama's demand that his critics need to explain themselves. no matter how busy your morning you can always do something better for yourself.

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the vice president joe biden also fessing up to the failures of the obama care web site promising a fix. listen to this from an exclusive interview he granted christi paul from our sister network hln. >> we were under the impression that it was ready to go. we had the president to his credit almost seven weeks out are we ready? we'd be tolled by the pros, this all looks ready to go. all in line. neither he nor i are technology geeks. and we assumed that it was up and ready to run. >> more of our situation room special report obama care under fire right after this. had two :

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we're now learning more about a disturbing early warning that the obama care web site security was at risk. cnn has obtained an internal government memo. joe johns is here with us in the situation room. tell us about this. >> reporter: wolf, this is the memo. the memo is an internal memo dated september 27th of this year. less than a week before the healthcare.gov web site went live. it warned the administration of a high security risk because of a lack of testing. it said that the agency had created a dedicated security team to monitor the risk, conduct weekly scans and conduct a full-scale security assessment within three months. the memo did not say what the security concerns were, but we do know that as far back as august the inspector general for

the department of health and human services had warned that the site could be hacked. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius under aggressive questioning said the testing is ongoing and that the document underscores that the site would not get permanent authorization to operate until all the necessary fixes are in place. >> you know, there was an interesting mention of another cnn report during the course of today's congressional hearing. i want to play the clip because it's not exactly precise. listen to this. >> mr. chairman, it just came to my attention that on cnn, the cnn's web site, that the site was hacked just last week. >> okay. >> and i will be happy to make this available to you. >> the cnn web site? >> the cnn ran a story that the healthcare.gov web site was hacked last week. i would get this to you and would appreciate your response to that. >> joe, tell us what the report

we posted on our web site actually said. >> it's not exactly right. what we did not report was that the site had been hacked. cnn money reported that a software tester from arizona had identified a hole in the web site's security system that could -- could allow a hacker to reset your password without your knowledge and gain access to your account. cnn money says doing it wouldn't have even taken a skilled hacker. anyone with bad intentions and a minimal understanding of how to read a web site's code could have figured it out. it was a theoretical report. we also reported, by the way, that that glitch has now been fixed, wolf >> yes. we also heard mike rogers the chairman of the house intelligence committee, a member of this other committee also expressed serious doubts that the security was good right now. joe, thanks very much for that report. joe johns reporting for us. we also heard the president defend obama care just a little while ago, saying the rollout of mitt romney's health care plan in massachusetts, he reminded everyone, also had some serious problems at the beginning.

brian todd is here, he's been taking a comparison of both of these programs. what are you seeing? >> wolf, the comparisons are not straightforward. because when you look at the president's plan, much of that vfs projections for the future. so they're unclear. we did look at some things you can measure in massachusetts, including cost to the consumer and the access patients get to doctors. >> president obama again using massachusetts as the model for his health care law. like under romney care, he contends, many more people will be covered. but a top critic of the president's plan worries about another unfavorable comparison to what happened in massachusetts. >> about 70% of primary care doctors at the time, before romney care, were accepting new patients. that has dropped down to 50%. and we're going to see the same problem nation-wide as obama care rolls out. >> that's because doctors get reimbursed less as more patients enroll. an expert who helped craft romney's and obama's plans says the doctor crunch isn't unique

to romney's plan. >> the pressures in the rest of the country are far greater than they are in massachusetts. >> reporter: he says the obama plan will address that by offering financial incentives like medical school loan help, to get doctors to participate. did the massachusetts plan lower costs for patients? according to government statistics, under romney's plan the yearly cost of a premium for an average person in massachusetts went up faster than it did in the rest of the country between 2006 when the plan rolled out and 2012. congressman john fleming redikts this under obama care. >> immediate racheting up of price and cost. >> reporter: but supporters of the president's plan say the rate of growth in massachusetts slowed in recent years. >> over the past three to four years we have seen a significant reduction in the rate of growth in health insurance premiums in massachusetts and also around the country. >> reporter: but that has not been a steady curve. it's hard to compare rates and hard to compare enrollment.

analysts who have looked at the two plans say there are some key differences when it comes to enrollment between romney care and obama care. in massachusetts, to boil it down, the group of uninsured was smaller and the enrollment was done in stages over a longer period of time, wolf. >> good report. thanks very much. just ahead, congresswoman michele bachmann on obama care's failures. is she accepting secretary sebelius's apology today? also obama care in the crossfire. our special coverage continues right at the bottom of the hour with newt gingrich on the right and van jones on the left. uncer] this store knows how to handle a saturday crowd. ♪ [ male announcer ] the parking lot helps by letting us know who's coming. the carts keep everyone on the right track. the power tools introduce themselves. all the bits and bulbs keep themselves stocked. and the doors even handle the checkout so we can work on that thing that's stuck in the thing. [ female announcer ] today, cisco is connecting the internet of everything.

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slightly since the summer despite the web site's problems that have received so much attention over the past month. the gallup poll shows approval of the law now stands at 44%. that's up three points from august. i'll ask republican congresswoman michele bachmann about that and more right after this. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

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and republican representative michele bachmann of minnesota is joining us here in the situation room. congresswoman, thanks for coming in. >> thank you. >> you heard the president today earlier today. i want you to listen to one line that he said. because he might have been referring to you. >> and republican representative michele bachmann of minnesota is joining us here in the situation room. congresswoman. >> we need to finish the job of making the health care system work for everybody especially when these folks offer no plan for the uninsured or the underinsured or folks who lose their insurance each year.

thhoul have to explain themselves. >> that's another false statement that the president says anyone who is not happy with the current program is somehow 100% defending what we had before. that isn't true at all. we had a whole passle of reforms we wanted in the current health care system. the president wasn't interested. he only wanted the federal government to assume every packet of health care and force every american into his version of health care. it's really interesting, wolf. the way the president opened his speech was to praise mitt romney for working with republicans and democrats in massachusetts. that's what's so bizarre. the president didn't work with one republican on this massive takeover. >> he tried. republicans didn't want to work with him. >> he didn't get one republican vote. what does that say? that tells you the president had one idea for health care which is a government ownership, government control and government mandate.

we don't want forced programs. we want choice in programs and freedom for people. >> so this is the law right now, the affordable care act. it is the law. do you want to try to make it better, to fix it, or do you just want to destroy it? >> no. what i want is the finest possible health care for america that we can have. we did have fabulous health care. and i think we can again. >> a lot of people didn't have fabulous health care. there were millions of people who had no health care. >> remember what the president's talking about right now is fantasy health care. he promised all americans that you and i would be saving $2500 a year. didn't happen. it's not going to happen. he promised us no tax increases. huge tax increases. in fact, the biggest middle class tax increase we've ever seen. he told us that if we liked our health insurance plan we could keep it. tell that to 16 million americans today. or that the cost was actually going to go down. that didn't happen to jason anderson in my district who's 31

years old whose wife and 2-year-old baby saw their premium double and triple. >> what about all the people who can now buy health insurance because they had a pre-existing condition? earlier they couldn't buy health insurance. all of a sudden now they can go out and buy health insurance. you would welcome that. >> that was a heartbreaker for every american to hear those stories. that's something where republicans and democrats could have come together. the "washington post" said this is a $5 billion problem. you know me, wolf. i'm a strong fiscal conservative. i would have gone to the treasury and wrote out the check for 5 billion every year to pay for the pre-existing poll. that's something we could take care of. but we don't have to force over 300 million americans to buy a health insurance policy at a price they can't afford from a web site that doesn't work. that's what we don't need in health care. >> presumably that web site will work one of these days, sooner rather than later, right? >> the web site at some point i think will work. if it doesn't it will be the laughingstock of america. but the bigger problem in all

this is the health care system that won't work. because again what i would say to the president is, what are you? what are the democrat senators, the democrat house members who voted for obama care, what are you going to do about the millions of jobs that have been lost because health insurance premiums have jacked people up so high they can't afford to buy the health insurance? what are you going to do about jason anderson in my district who saw his premium double? what are you going to do about the woman who for 37 years has paid for the family policy, this year again her premium will go up $2,000 a year. and her deductible will triple. she can't afford it. >> for those stories there are a lot of other stories, heart-breaking stories as well where people who had no health insurance now for the first time in their lives they do have health insurance. >> wolf, even the government says when all is said and done and the government takes over health insurance, 30 million americans will still be without health insurance. >> better than 50 million.

>> we weren't at 50. >> we were pretty close. >> that's also included illegal aliens. if you ask americans, they don't believe that it's the job of the taxpayer to pay for the health insurance subsidy for illegal aliens. >> in this new gallup poll that is just out do you approve or disapprove of the health care law? august 41% approved, now up to 44%. there's a slight improvement. people are beginning to like it a little bit more. >> not in my district they aren't. people are really upset about it. remember your viewers, their tax money has been used to spend on tens of millions of dollars of advertising to tell america, you love it. you really love it. you know you love this. so we're being forced by our own tax money to be told that we love this plan. i will tell you, not at home. not at home they don't. people love things where somebody else buys their product for them. but again, think of all we're talking about here. every american is forced to buy a product whether they want to

or not at a prooit price most of them can't afford unless the government subsidizes it? and again, what we believe is it should be voluntary. if there are people without health insurance we get that. but make it voluntary. don't force us to buy something we don't want buy. >> we will continue this conversation. michele bachmann, thanks for coming in. you can always follow us what's going on behind the scenes in the situation room on twitter, you can tweet me @wolfblitzer, obviously tweet the show as well @cnnsitroon. thanks for watching. we'll continue our special coverage of obama care tomorrow in the situation room. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. "crossfire" with newt gingrich and van jones starting right now. tonight on "crossfire" what have we learned about obama care? after a day of answers. >> hold me accountable. >> questions. >> would you commit today, secretary, to shut down the

system and do an end to end security test? >> theater. >> we're not in kansas anymore. >> and exasperation. >> who is ultimately responsible? it is the president, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever. >> on the left, van jones. on the right, newt gingrich. in the crossfire. congresswoman janet shikowsky who supports obama care and congressman tim murphy who opposes it. obama care under fire tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the crossfire tonight, representatives jan shikowski and tim murphy. people seem surprised i've drawn a parallel between richard nixon and the dishonesty of this administration. but look at what's happened in just the last few days. we've had a white house tweet saying quote nothing in obama care forces people out of their health plans.

that's patently not true. today the secretary of health and human services said the obama care web site hadn't crashed, which is so wrong it's painful. she also alleged she's barred by law from enrolling in obama care. more on that in a moment. and cnn is reporting the administration is pressuring insurance executives to keep quiet, which would be an illegal abuse of power if it turns out to be true. which part of this does not resemble some of what happened in 1973-74? including a president whose operative explanation keeps changing? >> nobody's losing their right to health care coverage. for the vast majority of people who have health insurance that works you can keep it. for the fewer than 5% of americans who buy insurance on your own, you will be getting a better deal. >> before anything let me point out this is the man who spent three years and thousands of references to no one will lose their health insurance, today

for the first time he began to modify that blanket commitment. but i suspect you don't totally agree. >> there's so much wrong with what you said it's going to take entire show to try to correct the record. i will say this. to even mention nixon in the middle of all this is to put the hype in hyperbole. we've come to the point in american politics we can't tell the difference between a glitch in a web site and -- in the cross fire we've got two house members who got a chance to question secretary sebelius today. one democrat janet shikowski from illinois and republican tim murphy from pennsylvania. first question to you. you, sir, are a psychologist in addition to being a congress person >> yes. >> isn't this evidence of some crazy derangement? i mean, have we now gotten to the point where in the nation's

capitol we can no longer speak to each other rationally, make rational comparisons? don't you see pure hysteria now over obama care taking over the capitol? >> well, there are a lot of concerns about obama care affordable care. >> do you think nixon should be drug into this? are you going to compare the president of the united states to richard nixon over a glitchy web site? >> my concern is the president continued to say that if you wanted your health care plan you could keep it. that's simply not true. >> then he burgled somebody? >> the issue you can't keep your health care plan. for many people that's a concern. i've been getting a lot of letters from people who said my plan's been discontinued. what can i do? that is not hyperbole. >> fair enough. here is my concern about where we are right now. >> sure. >> the rollout has been bumpy. this law is not perfect. you've never passed a perfect law, nor have you, no nor have

you. usually we come together and try to fix these things as we go. why can't we do this now? why all the hysteria? i don't understand from your point of view, you're good reasonable congressperson. why aren't you leading the charge for an upgrade obama care fix this rather than all the grandstanding? >> i was on the committee too when this bill went through. we didn't get a chance to have our amendments stick. they mysteriously disappeared on their way toft floor. we tried to do a number of things. i certainly say there's a lot that should be done. i think the law as i said is far from what it should be in terms of reforming health care. i think to a large extent because people can't keep kind of plan, they can't go out-of-state, can't even keep their doctor. i know from my constituents in pittsburgh, a lot of them will specifically be forbidden because of the way the plans work to be able to go to another plan. that's a dramatic problem for people to have that. we should fix those things. >> let me ask you, congressman, you were in the hearing today. i want you to watch for a second

this example of how complex and how difficult this is even for the secretary of health and human services, this particular segment. >> why aren't you losing your health insurance? >> because i'm part of the federal employees plan. >> why aren't you in the exchange? you're part of this law, correct? why aren't you in this exchange? >> because i'm part of the federal employees health plan? >> why won't you go into the exchange? >> you're the architect of the whole program and you won't go into it with the rest of the american public. >> i'm saying it's illegal for me. >> if it's legal will you go in? >> now here's the point i want to make. we spent a good bit of time this afternoon checking this out. the fact is, she's in medicare. she's not in the federal -- she has the federal employee benefit health plan as part of her package but she's also in medicare. the way the law was written gets very complicated at this point. it will be interesting to watch with congress. because you have a number of congressmen and congresswomen who are old enough that they're on medicare.

supposedly they can't be sold anything through the exchange if they're on medicare even though they're not supposed to go into the exchange. but doesn't it illustrate how complex this is when the secretary of health and human services couldn't sort out or in terms of her own personal health what her status was? and doesn't that worry you a little bit about trying to have the federal government watch 315 million people? >> you know, this was just a dpoa gotcha moment. this was an effort to just attack the secretary. why aren't you in the plan, which is totally irrelevant, really, to obama care. you're right. it is complex. but the idea, i think, is for people like tim and myself to get together and try and make a plan that will lift the burden of pre-existing conditions off of millions of americans, put millions and millions who have waited some all their lives to get health care, to make it

work. we could do this together. we did it with medicare part d, worked together and we could do it now. >> surely you understand the frustration that americans feel that somehow people in government aren't subjected to the same plan they're making other people subjected to and the frustration that they feel when they can't sign up for things. and on their part -- >> i don't think people give a darn whether or not kathleen sebelius is in the plan. what they want to know is what's in it for me. so i think making sure that that question can be answered. and i think you would agree that -- we're going into the plan, right? members of congress. i think actually that is significant and important. >> sure. >> but i think more important to individuals is not that kind of back and forth but rather how can i get the health care they need for myself and my family. >> but it's part of their frustration when they say my policy is being canceled. why doesn't everybody take part in this? it's a complicating fact because she's in medicare, too. >> can i say something about those letters?

this is a blue cross-blue shield letter that went out in illinois. it says the new health care plan is effective. this means that the health insurance plan you now have will no longer be available for renewal as you of december 31st, 20 2013. it says you may find your premiums are lower due to a new kind of tax credit in the marketplace. you might also qualify for plans with reduced deductibles and co-payments, even though that isn't available outside the marketplace, the health care law also guarantees that you can choose a new plan outside of the marketplace even if you have a pre-existing condition. my point is, these insurers either want to keep the people in their network in their policy or they want to tell them, they tell them about what's available in the marketplace. >> if it's available. >> if it's available. but they have to do that. because the grandfather part of the bill says if you have a plan

that continues on. but the law says they have to provide different coverage. >> better coverage. >> different coverage, whatever that is. for the 50-year-old woman who was writing to me she says i'm not going to have any more children. >> and i don't have a prostate, okay? >> that's fine. but the point is for folks to say they're now going to pay so much more because they're not the grandfathering option. that's a myth there for a lot of people. because if a plan changes its coverage, if a plan changes how much they're charged in co-pays, deductibles and premiums there is no grandfather option. people are saying i can't afford to make this adjustment. the compassionate thing we need to say its how do we help these people? i don't think they have an out right now. >> the question i want to ask you, do you honestly believe the administration is open to any significant fixes? everybody now the new word from democrats is we should work together. which i think is great. but that would actually imply that the president would be willing to look now at fixes to obama care that would have to be

bipartisan. and i haven't sensed up until now, maybe you have, any kind of this. >> i have absolutely no doubt about it. there was the postponement of the mandate for some businesses. there's absolutely no question that if we were able to sit down, come up with some agreeable changes that we could actually move those forward. >> well, we're going to keep talk about this after this break. but you know, you pointed to that letter. at the hearing we saw an awful lot of letters being waved around, democrats waving letters from people who said they were helped by obama care. republicans who said they had letters from people that were hurt from obama care. when we come back i'll tell you why they should knock off waving letters when we come back. [ sneezes, coughs ]

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welcome back. in the crossfire tonight representative jan shikowski and tim murphy. we have been debating obama care. in my view both sides need to be very careful right now. under the old health care systems democrats were passionate about defending the losers, people getting denied and duped and dumped by the insurance companies that. passion is what ultimately won the day. today you get a lot of democrats that sound totally tone deaf when hearing complaints from people who feel like they're the losers in the new system under

obama care. that is not smart. we got to show more compassion for people who are going to have to buy different plans than they were expecting. their fear and their pain is real. at the same time, the gop was totally indifferent to the pain of all the people who were losers in the old system. and now they seem totally indifferent to the gains of all the winners under obama care. that's not smart either for them. the democrats should show a lot more concern for people even though the numbers are few who fear they might be losing ground. the gop should be willing and courageous enough to celebrate for the millions of people who are clear wins under obama care. so to you, i think you are missing a huge opportunity here to actually celebrate with women in this country -- your party has got a tough problem with women. women are winners under obama care. people with pre-existing conditions are winners under obama care. and you rush past them to demagogue from my point of view i see your party demagoguing the people who have been losing out. what about the winners?

can you stand up and appreciate an celebrate the victory for the w winners. >> absolutely. i have a daughter and wife. i want to make sure as my daughter is growing on her own she has the opportunities. i've always felt even when i was a state senator and authored a patient bill of rights. i understand the importance of women having access to care and dealing with people's pre-existing conditions. absolutely true. what about the other 2077 other pages of the bill? here is where i'm concerned, van. sometimes we build such a massive government bureaucracy that it's hard to do the very things you're saying. i agree with you. we need to look at the compassionate things to help people and to make sure they have the options out there. what is happening the arguments taking place in congress is how the government is running this. i'm concerned that it's going to trample of the need of the very people who need help. >> good enough. but part of the thing that i think people are not understanding, people are starting to get some of these letters. it almost seems like when you

hear it from the republican side that everybody's being thrown off their plans. my understanding of it is before obama care now, it was an awful system and only 17% of people on the individual market were able to keep their plans in the first place. you've got medicare, medicaid, you've got the employer system. but for the people on the individual market, wild wild west, only 17% of those people before obama care could keep their individual plans. they were getting thrown off before. now we're hearing from you guys as if obama care is the cause of something. obama care is trying to fix that. if there are people who are being hurt we can work together to fix it. but don't you think the old system had a bunch of losers in the old market? >> first of all by law they can't deny people care. under hippa laws and before. if a person was discontinued they had to offer them something else. this is something jan you brought up that's important. some people are getting the discontinuation letters from their insurance company. they're saying you're not going

to get it. some poem will be able to go onto the exchange and they'll get a better deal because they'll have a subsidy or something else because of their income that. part is new. these two groups are not necessarily exactly the same. so some people here are not going to be able to be in on that. so that's the concern, too. so we're going to find a big chunk of people here, i don't see an answer yet what's going to happen to those folks. >> here's the thing. we need a baseline understanding that obama care is here to stay. there has been a 3 1/2 year relentless campaign to defund, to repeal, to get rid of it. if we can all just agree this is the law of the land. now, how are we going to go forward? i haven't seen that yet. >> i find this amazing. because i don't know if you were on the committee when we had the mark up on this. but every amendment we offered to try to modify -- a lot of of them improving amendments were either voted off or when the bill appeared on the floor it disappeared. granted that's old history now

to say we didn't work together. what can we do now. but i would love to see a world in the house -- i know you would too because you care deeply about this country and community. to say where do we go now? what are the parts we're going to see emerge? i think we're going to see this whole thing with the web site mess, it is a debacle. everybody agrees. the president, the secretary, we all agree it's a mess. what's going to happen next is people asking questions about access and price. people are going to say i have coverage or i don't have coverage? i can see the doctor i want to see or i can't see the doctors i want to see. we'll see the waves coming through. the question is will we be able to come through proposals that will make it through committee, floor, the senate? i don't know yet. >> if you're willing, if the republicans are willing to sit down and acknowledge, this is a great thing, that being a woman is no longer a pre-existing condition. that is absolutely true. that women have paid about -- >> republicans aren't anti--women. >> can i just say. this is an example of how it all

breaks down here. if you can just agree to postpone that argument. that is to say the republicans don't have to give up the fact they don't like obama care. you don't have to give up the fact you love obama care. it is currently the law. so is there a way to work today on fixing it without having -- because in a sense what you're saying to republicans, look, the minute you guys surrender we'll be glad to talk to you. that's not going to happen. >> yes. exactly. surrender the idea that obama care is going to go away. but i think they continue to demonize it. if you heard the hearing today, there wasn't one person who said why don't we sit down and here's the problem that we ought to continue to work on and tim and i, i would love to see that. i would love to see that. >> i they that if people could agree to suspend the ultimate fight and let's just say what can we do right now to fix these things.

we're going to have millions of people who potentially are going to be in a mess in january. and no one wants to talk about delay. somebody better figure out a clever answer for that. but let me ask you again. this may be from your perspective negative but it's part of the same problem. >> okay. >> cnn has reported that the white house is actively pressuring insurance companies to not say anything. now, i think this is part of the same challenge you've got with you can't figure out what's wrong with the web site, you can't figure out what the real internals are on terms of who's signing up and not signing up. we can't figure out what's really gone wrong. because the very people who really understand the industry, which is the industry, are being told don't say anything. i mean, somehow doesn't it bother you that there's so little information available that you could then build a rational nonconfrontational effort on a bipartisan level? >> there are a lot of questions about that. i believe that information is going to be forthcoming. the idea that the obama administration is pressuring insurance companies, we saw an

insurance executive on the weekend talk shows. i think that's just nonsense. but i do want to say that the republicans sent a letter, it was mitch mcconnell and i can't remember who else, to the nfl, to all the sports teams, saying, do not promote affordable health care. so it happens. and that was actually true. i have a copy of that letter. >> hold on. if you don't mind, stay here. next we're going to ceasefire. is there anything the two of yu can agree on? i'm actually pretty optimistic tonight. we also want you at home to weigh in on today's fireback question. do you accept secretary kathleen sebelius's apology over the obama care web site debacle? tweet yes or no using #crossfire. we'll have the results after the break. commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company.

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we're back with representatives jan shikowski and tim murphy. we'll call a ceasefire. is there anything we can agree on, jan? >> tim is a psychologist. and obviously mental health issues cross over into so many other things, even the issue of gun violence. we talked about the need for mental health services. i really think this is something that is desperately needed for our soldiers, for our kids. and i think that's something that we could work on.

>> and i think that's where i've been working with a number of democrats and republicans on this. love to work with you, too. where in some areas mental health is a big part of health care. we've got to deal with this. we owe it to the families of newtown. we owe it to gabby giffords and any american who is threatened and worried about the 11 million americans with serious mental illness, couple million americans who have no treatment for this at all even with access we've got serious problems. we could work on that. >> that could be a very exciting, positive thing to come out of this evening. >> if you start working on that maybe you build momentum to work on other things that have to get done in terms of the fixes and upgrades in obama care. >> that's a given. we're going to have to work together on those fixes. are going to have to come. >> let me just say thank you to representatives jan shikowski and tim murphy. go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. do you accept secretary sebelius's apology over the the obama care web site debacle? right now 42% of you say yes,

58% say no. >> wow. >> i say yes. >> i say yes, too. listen, the debate is going to continue online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as on facebook and twitter. from the left i'm van jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us this is piers morgan live. taking the blame for the obama care website fiasco. secretary sebelius. >> let me say directly to these americans, you deserve better. i apologize. >> then her boss. >> there is no excuse for it. i take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed asap. >> have you been online long? >> the president tried to get online and